January 15, 2008
The Dems In Vegas: Liveblogging The Debate
End note. We've suspected for a while that the media have blown up trivialities in the Democratic nomination contest because the candidates are mostly on board with each other on the major issues. This forum was a case in point.
Have Clinton and Obama really been squabbling over who is the rightful heir to MLK? Of course not. But you might have been led to believe otherwise by the previous days' news cycles, which is why it came up tonight.
Is Obama really struggling to convince voters that he's not a jihadist in disguise? Certainly. Not. The only plausible defense Williams et al. could give for bringing that story up is that it's already out there, and they were simply giving Obama a chance to put the rumors to rest. Again, we say: Anyone willing to believe those rumors hasn't been following Obama hardly at all and probably wouldn't vote for him no matter what. Imagine George Stephanopoulos asking John McCain about his rumored illegitimate black baby. Some things, my friends, should simply be out of bounds.
You're going to hear more about the rocky beginning of this debate tomorrow, I suspect. We'll update with reaction in the afternoon. [I lied; we'll go up with it Thursday.]
By the way, with 89 percent of precincts reporting, it's not even close: Romney trounced McCain 39 percent to 30 percent. Because Romney is a native son, a win in Michigan means much less than a loss would have. Still, he needed a gold, and he'll use his victory tonight to convince GOP voters that he's still in it to win it. See reports on the GOP contest here and here.
10:56. Just finished closing arguments. Nothing you haven't heard before, though Obama got off a very good line on his decision to enter the race: "Because my wife is extraordinary and my children above average, I figured they could manage it."
Holy Garrison Keillor, Batman. Also: We are nerds.
10:46. We're on to terrorism.
Does Clinton stand by the assertion that she is better prepared than her rivals to lead the nation in the war against al-Qaida? Without saying it directly, the answer is yes. "I do feel the next president has to be prepared because we are up against a relentless enemy," she says, before going on to subtly complain about this issue's disappearance from the campaigns. The terrorism issue really works for her in this field, and she knows it. Unfortunately for her, the Change mantra overtook it, which is in part why she's now in a fierce battle for the nomination.
10:43. A commercial break. I officially cannot stand the song in this Liberty Mutual commercial. Sorry for departing from character, or whatever, but it is bleeding awful and has aired in every break MSNBC has taken this evening. Make it stop.
10:40. Obama and Clinton oppose a national registry for guns. They both walk a delicate (but totally walkable) line between respecting Second Amendment rights and regulating the sale and ownership of assault weapons. Edwards, from hunting and fishing country, does the same.
10:37. Obama broaches an issue often perceived as taboo for his white rivals, namely, the issues plaguing the black community.
Clinton won't let him own it, though. She's worked with 100 Black Men in New York, she says, before talking about the need for more parental aid and involvement.
10:35. Clinton, by the way, lamented that "black/brown" issues haven't come up even though "this is a black/brown debate." (The forum is being co-sponsored by the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and IMPACTO, 100 Black Men of America and the College of Southern Nevada.) Indeed. Once again, moderators, could have done without the Obama-Muslim question and the race flap revival.
10:30. On to illegal immigration.
Edwards: All immigrants need to speak English.
Russert: Will Latino candidates not vote for a black candidate?
Clinton: The agenda for America is the agenda for blacks and Latinos.
Obama: Latinos in Illinois all voted for me!
10:25. Russert: Does Edwards seriously believe that the nation's energy crisis can be solved with wind and solar power alone? Edwards won't budge on his opposition to nuclear energy and then delivers the Democratic talking points on emissions caps etc. He also opposes coal energy and then back-slaps his rivals' energy platforms.
Clinton: "This should be our Apollo moon shot." Without actually saying it, Clinton is warning Americans that a sea change in U.S. energy consumption will require sacrifice -- of money, of convenience and of other things Americans hold dear. At some point, we will need to hear outright straight talk -- to borrow a phrase from John McCain -- on this issue.
10:20. Here's a blast from the past: Yucca Mountain! Hello, old friend. We remember you from the 2004 election.
Obama and Clinton are together on opposing storing nuclear waste there. Per Clinton, Edwards voted in favor of Bush's plan for Yucca. Edwards counters that he is against Yucca Mountain now and adds that he opposes building up nuclear energy as an alternative to foreign oil. Thanks to France's example, a growing number of environmentalists are warming to nuclear energy. A real policy contrast here, at last.
10:15. No one here is willing to open the door to a military draft, so in order to relieve the strain on troops, Obama calls for "an increase in force structure." Translation: A bigger military and bigger military budget. Has anyone else noticed that the Democratic and Republican fields are unified in promising more Pentagon spending?
10:08. Once again, Edwards calls for a complete troop pullout from Iraq with "a quick-reaction force" in Kuwait to attack al-Qaida flare-ups. Someone needs to explain to Edwards that there is no such thing as a remote quick-reaction force in that region. The Pentagon tried it, remember, with those large fortified bases, and it didn't work. Hence, Gen. David Petraeus' counterinsurgency strategy.
10:04. Clinton to Obama: Will you be my legislation co-sponsoring friend? Awww.
Clinton just asked Obama to sign on to legislation requiring Bush to request congressional approval for future agreements with the Iraqi government. "I think we have to do everything we can to prevent President Bush from binding the hands of the next president," Clinton said.
Obama: "I think we can work on this."
9:57. Per Williams, the candidates are allowed to ask one question of a rival. Edwards goes first with a question about campaign finance. He promises not to get "preachy," and then proceeds to point out that Obama has recently surpassed Clinton in getting the most donations from the health insurance industry. (*cough*) Don't these companies expect a return on their investment, Edwards wonders?
Obama: If some industry executive happens to be "inspired by my message for change," the donation gets registered as being from that industry, not the individual, Obama responds. In other words, these companies, much vilified by Edwards, are also made of flesh-and-blood people.
9:51. OK, everyone here agrees that Bush's tax cuts need to be rolled back. Democrats want a higher tax rate on wealthier Americans. A better preparation-for-the-general question might be: How do you dispute Bush's assertions that his tax cuts spurred economic growth post-9/11? There is sound evidence that there was no direct relationship between the tax cuts and the economy's recovery after the attacks, so this might be a fairly easy question to answer -- if only someone would ask it.
9:47. When it comes to the Democratic field, the dialogue about the foreclosure crisis is largely a contest about who can beat up on the big lenders more. Not terribly sophisticated, but it plays to a large segment of the base. Clinton makes the first overt play for the black and Latino middle class.
9:41. A quick break, and we're back to the real, as opposed to totally made-up, issues.
In the candidates' defense, economic issues are notoriously difficult to sound-bite on the campaign trail. On the issue of the sovereign wealth fund injections that big U.S. banks have been taking to stay afloat, Clinton responds that she is "very concerned about this" and that "we need to have a lot more control over what they do and how they do it." The liquidity crisis here has prompted banks and brokerages like UBS, Citi and Merrill Lynch to accept cash from those who have it -- namely, governments in Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Clinton calls for more World Bank and IMF control; it's not clear how feasible that is as an option.
Edwards and Obama are shakier. Edwards turns his response into another treatise on the suffering middle class, while Obama somewhat improbably blames the liquidity crisis on the Bush administration's lack of "an energy policy." A little confusing, how he got from Point A to Point B just now.
9:31. Hey, Barack Hussein Obama, are you a Muslim or what?
Please tell me Brian Williams did not just go there. Oh, but he did.
"I am a Christian. I have been sworn in with a Bible," Obama says, in a voice more level than we would have managed. "The American people are smarter than folks give them credit for."
For Obama's sake, let's hope that is true. And jeers to MSNBC for going there. Anyone willing to believe the dirty-politics whispering campaign that Obama is a secretly practicing Muslim plotting to take over the White House for jihad probably wouldn't be an Obama supporter anyway, no matter what.
9:25. A heckler! We can't quite make out what he's shouting... wait a minute, is that you, Dennis Kucinich? Or Mike Gravel?
9:23. At last, the issues. Nevada is experiencing one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country -- largely on the backs of speculators, but the middle class is definitely hurting in that state as well. Clinton is the first to touch on this, and she then goes after President Bush. He's "begging the Saudis" to lower the price of oil, she says. "How pathetic! We should have an energy policy right now," she adds. There's the fire that's served her so well in most of the debates so far.
9:20. Edwards denies that he and Obama were tag-teaming against Clinton in the ABC New Hampshire debate. Check the video -- not sure if anyone is buying what he's selling here.
9:18. Colleague Gwen Glazer notes that the candidates look none too pleased that these non-issue questions are the first to get asked tonight. Agreed. Time to change topics, guys.
9:15. Reconciliation time again. Does Obama regret telling Clinton she was "likable enough" in the New Hampshire debate? He does. "It did not come out the way it was supposed to," he says.
9:13. Now that the race issue is dispensed with (for now, anyway), are we back to banging the gong of Change Change Change? From what Edwards is saying, it seems so. Oh boy.
9:11. Obama disagrees with the premise that Camp Clinton has tried to co-opt race as an issue against him. Clinton says she won't disavow BET founder Robert Johnson, whose comments helped ignite the race furor.
9:07. Like ripping off a Band-Aid... first question is about the race spat.
Clinton: "Neither race nor gender ought to be part of this campaign." She proceeds to touch on Obama's and Edwards' back stories, which are both inspirational, as well as her own. "We both have exuberant and sometimes uncontrollable supporters," Clinton adds, in reference to the proxy battles carried out by her and Obama's surrogates. "We're all family in the Democratic Party. We are so different from the Republicans."
You may recall that Clinton only ever talked about the contrast with Republicans -- until Obama started gaining on her this past fall.
Obama seconds what Clinton has said about Democratic unity and how this entire field has benefited in one way or another from the civil rights movement. "There's much more that we hold in common than what separates us," he says.
Edwards reminds everyone that he is the lone Southerner in this group and grew up in a time of segregation. "I feel an enormous personal responsibility to continue to move forward," Edwards says. The former North Carolina senator has been campaigning as an anti-corporate populist and lately has been making the argument that as such, he is the best candidate for black Americans.
8:59. And Clinton has won it for the Democrats, which is no surprise. OK, back to the Vegas debate. Brian Williams is making the introductions.
8:57. NBC calls the Michigan GOP primary for Romney. Behind him are John McCain in second and Mike Huckabee in third. Romney really needed this win -- but will it be enough, following his losses in Iowa and New Hampshire?
8:45. A black man, a white woman and the son of a mill worker walk into a bar...
Erm, hello! And welcome to The Gate's liveblog coverage of MSNBC's Democratic candidates debate. Tonight, Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards gather in Las Vegas amid the most tensely competitive climate in the Democratic field we've seen so far this cycle.
In case you missed it, Clinton's and Obama's surrogates have been whacking each other over the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr., just in time for the civil rights icon's birthday. Perhaps fortunately, both candidates called for a time out earlier today, which seemed to head off the sort of slapfighting over Ronald Reagan regularly seen on the Republican side.
Of course, tonight's debate is airing nationally in prime time, so you can bet one of the moderators, Tim Russert and Brian Williams, will be pressing Clinton and Obama on this latest ugliness. Meanwhile, Edwards, trailing well behind the front-runners in polls, will undoubtedly use his time to rise above the tit-for-tatting and reassert himself in this competition.
At some point, we'll be getting the results from the Michigan GOP primary. The big question there is whether native son Mitt Romney will win and thereby gain back some of his lost mojo. We'll update with the winner when the race is called. With both Obama and Edwards off the Michigan ballot, the Democratic race there doesn't mean much. For why, click here.
The fun airs on MSNBC and will be streamed live on MSNBC.com. Don't forget to refresh early and often!
Posted at 11:16 PM
Posted to:
Barack Obama, Campaigns, Democrats, Dennis Kucinich, Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Edwards, John McCain, Mike Gravel, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney, Republicans, WH 2008
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